I just signed with an agent — and she referred to my book as upmarket. While I was querying I knew it could be upmarket, book club, or women’s fic and I took the lead from the agents MSWL and used the language they did in my queries because in my research it seems like those categories are often interchangeable. I was stressed in the beginning of my query process because of that genre question. But in a class I took in Kauai the agent teaching the course told us all that most querying authors get their genre wrong, that your agent will help you figure it out and to not sweat it as much 🤣 I still stressed a little :)
Thanks so much for sharing your experience “in the trenches”! That’s a great point to look at the specific language agents are using in their ms wishlists (not to mention taking that extra step to research beyond what’s listed as their genres on Query Tracker!).
I also think it's worth thinking about how books are categorized by retailers. Amazon has a separate Women's Fiction category with the following sub-categories: Black & African American; contemporary; divorce; domestic life; friendship; mothers & children; single women; sisters. They do not have Book Club Fiction or Upmarket Fiction, although they do have Literary Fiction. Barnes and Noble does NOT have a women's fiction section, so those books are probably shelved under romance or general fiction.
Good points...and it makes it all the more confusing for writers, I think! Also while we talk about commercial fiction in the industry, I've yet to hear a reader say that. I find the Amazon categories mostly though not always align with the BISAC codes, which can add further confusion. I also find it fascinating to see the new BISAC codes that get added every year (these are the ones marked with an asterisk) as that usually provides additional insights into the ever-changing language we're using in the industry. For instance, cozy fantasy is a new BISAC code...I'm not a fantasy reader but my understanding is that term mostly gained traction in 2022 with the book, Legends & Lattes. I also find it amusing that there's now a BISAC code for FICTION / Books, Bookstores & Libraries because boy, do we like our novels about books! But whereas "cozy fantasy" is positioning you would use in a query, I've wouldn't recommend using the latter as a subgenre. It's definitely tricky to make sense of it all, but it does make for a great discussion for us book nerds! ;)
I pitched my book as a woman’s fiction y cowboy romance and found my agent fairly quickly— she’s currently trying to sell it. We are calling it a “contemporary cowboy romance “. Not women’s fiction.
So much good info! I was a bit clueless about the codes when I signed my contract, but found that my publisher used women's fiction as the primary code even though I didn't pitch it that way
Ooh, that brings up another good point...your book is being publishing by a small press, right? Did you work with an agent or pitch directly to the publisher? I know you know this, but for those following along...small presses and university presses don't always operate in the same way as the big publishers.
Thanks for more analysis on this issue. I posted about this yesterday on the WFWA FB page and the article didn't surprise me. I agree with you that women's fiction is too vague and needs to be drilled down more. Right now it seems like family-oriented women's fiction or re-invention is suffering the most. Unless the MC is millennial and there's dark humor.
So good to see more of your insight on this topic! I also just saw that FB post and the interesting discussion it's generating. Personally (and perhaps not surprisingly) I'm partial to a good reinvention story with a Gen X MC. I'm hopeful now that we've finally destigmatized peri/menopause, and middle age has been rebranded as midlife, that we'll be seeing more of this.
Thank you...I'm glad you think so! I'm definitely curious to hear about other writers' experiences so we can keep this discussion going. I saw you're on the thread Karin started on WFWA's FB page, too, and it's very interesting to read the comments.
Heather! This was amazing. I learned so much about aspects of publishing I had zero idea about. You’re smart as hell, which I already know, but reading this made me say it again. Thanks!
Wow, what a compliment to start off my day! That means so much from someone whose writing I admire for being so powerful AND who I know always gives it straight. Thank YOU!
I pitched my novel as an upmarket love story, but now that I’ve decided to self-publish there’s no similar category. I have no other option but to market it as either women’s fiction or literary. Even though it’s neither. It’s very confusing.
I haven’t worked with authors who are self-publishing so don’t have much experience to share there but one of my fellow book coaches @annefhag recently shared that she was having this conversation with indie authors so tagging her so she can join if she has other thoughts. Where are you self-publishing through? It’s been a while but I do recall IngramSpark either used BISAC codes or has categories that are pretty similar to BISAC, and my understanding was that Amazon categories are actually more specific. If you can, I’d suggest following trad publishers’ lead by using additional categories to be more specific but still limiting them. (The best practice for BISAC codes is no more than three.)
Thanks so much Heather! I’ve checked amazon for similar books and used those categories. I hope it works, because I’d hate for people to get the wrong expectations and then get upset when my novel doesn’t deliver :)
Hi Malika. I’m the book coach Heather is referring too. I’m also an indie author 😃. I would be happy to take a look at categories with you. You can write me here: am@fiskerhag.com as I will need some details about your novel that you’re probably not comfortable sharing here 🤔😏
I also thought I could tag here but seems that didn't work...I'm still getting up to speed on Substack! I'll reach out and see if she can add any thoughts too though.
Thanks for this thoughtful analysis and conversation starter, Heather. I am a member of WFWA and have always found their definition of the genre to be confusing. It does not include the word 'woman' or 'women' nor imply the mission of the genre is to be either written or read by women. Which is all fair and fine, but begs the question: then why is it called Women's Fiction??
When I queried my first novel I did so under women's fiction or upmarket. Agree that often there are a handful of labels that could apply to any given book (for the one I'm writing now, I could see querying it under WF, Book Club, Upmarket, or Contemporary...to name a few). The lack of consistency in how these terms are being used and embraced (or rejected) throughout different facets of the industry is fascinating.
Thank you! And I agree that it is fascinating. But also frustrating, I think, especially for writers who may already have imposter syndrome then end up confused and feeling dumb because they can't figure out the differences, when clearly that's not their fault. I remember reading somewhere that one agent was quoted as saying about upmarket fiction something to the effect of, "I can't quite define it but I know it when I see it." It's no wonder there's so much confusion. But I think the good news for pitching writers is you just need to be close enough on genre that you're pitching the right agent and have solid comps.
This couldn't be more useful as I am in the process of querying a project but also starting a new one. Thank you for breaking this down for us. I also really appreciate the takeaway of giving a sense of tone and themes/topics in the genres we use when we query. Fabulous!!!!!
I think part of the problem is that while there is certainly "women's fiction" that appeals primarily to women--just as there is fiction that appeals primarily to men (but isn't called "men's fiction"), the definition given by WFWA (to which I belong) is very broad. I understand WFWA's desire not to ghettoize or be narrowly by-and-for women, but WFWA's description really does better fit book club or upmarket fiction, and even though more women than men apparently read fiction, if a novel is likely to have more than a sprinkling of male readers, then calling it women's fiction will not attract most of that potential male audience.
For instance--Yellowface or The Invisible Circus or The Blind Assassin could all be called women's fiction because they're about women's lives and relationships (not necessarily romantic), but--leaving aside the also-problematic category of literary fiction--it would be rather strange to market those books as women's fiction as they have a more general appeal. They could all be safely called book club fiction since they offer plenty to discuss; on the other hand, not all women's fiction offers much to discuss as some is simply light reading intended to entertain (and nothing wrong with that).
Also, I don't think almost any physical bookstore or library has a women's fiction section or a book club fiction section or a literary fiction section--they have mystery, romance, sci fi/fantasy, maybe western, and everything else is shelved as just fiction. They might possible have a few shelves for classics that keep selling year after year, though--I've seen that now and then, particularly at airport bookstores.
The struggle with this is real! I just switched to a new author website and wrestled over my “tag-line” once again, specifically asking myself, “What kind of author am I, and how do I let visitors to my page know?” And even more specifically, “Should I still use the words ‘Women’s Fiction’ as one of my two primary categories?”
(I also read the Carly Waters’s article once again in seeking clarity.)
The thing is, my writing exactly squares up with the definition of women’s fiction. Even my mystery novels are women’s fiction. But why “women’s” fiction has always been the sticking point, right? Why gender it? And is gendering it so terrible? (I have also called my mysteries “chick lit” and actually champion the term. It, too, signals a certain kind of book, namely light women’s fiction. And taking back “chick” feels right to me.)
I thought about who my website is for…readers. I need them to know what sort of books they might find there and what would be familiar and relatable to them. I played around with more descriptive terms: Heart-Warming Fiction & Mystery (too warm & fuzzy for my style). Relatable Fiction & Mystery (yuck). Aspirational Fiction & Mystery (confusing). General Fiction & Mystery (snore). Fiction & Mystery (aren’t mysteries fiction? So why both?)
Waters suggested one that comes closest to describing the type of story I write: Adult Coming of Age Fiction. Maybe this would be perfect for an agent pitch but to draw readers? I’m not sure. It’s not exactly snappy.
The thing is, women’s fiction is more about the focus or themes of a novel, the types of conflict the characters confront, not a type of plot or a writing style, or time period. A book could be upmarket women’s fiction historical mystery. Or contemporary women’s fiction thriller.
Maybe it’s just too late. The term was coined and has stuck. It’s like chick lit. Chick lit started being called rom-com (which it isn’t and doesn’t help readers who go looking for a romance and find a not so happy ever after)) because of political correctness. Should it have been named something else to start? Probably. Same with Women’s Fic. But that ship has sailed.
What the reader needs to know may be different from what an agent or publisher needs to know. Maybe someday we’ll find another classification word.
I stuck with Women’s Fiction & Mystery. For now. Sorry for this long reply.
I LOVE a long, thoughtful reply! :) I tend to think if your author website is for readers, you still include the terms they’re familiar with (as you say, women’s fic and mystery) because they have no idea this discussion is even happening. But this is also where you can use other terminology as well to provide more info…you have a lot more flexibility in your website. For example, coming of age is certainly something readers are familiar with, but I’ve also recently heard “coming of middle age,” and I have to admit, I kinda love the cheekiness of it. (That could just be because of my own age!) Your author website is a great place to show your personality so you can be a little more playful if that’s reflective of your books. Another example…I work with the very funny humor writer Wendi Aarons who often says she writes for middle grade and middle age…both playful and accurate. However, I wouldn’t worry too much about your website either because that’s very unlikely to be the way readers are finding you. If they’re already on your website, they’re probably there because they’ve read your work and want to know more.
All good points, Heather! Thanks for replying. As you can tell, this topic fascinates me. Coming of middle age…yes. Been through that myself. With all the hormone changes and angst about body and aging and “who am I?” questioning, it was reminiscent of adolescence. Being human is a wild ride. Cheers!
I just signed with an agent — and she referred to my book as upmarket. While I was querying I knew it could be upmarket, book club, or women’s fic and I took the lead from the agents MSWL and used the language they did in my queries because in my research it seems like those categories are often interchangeable. I was stressed in the beginning of my query process because of that genre question. But in a class I took in Kauai the agent teaching the course told us all that most querying authors get their genre wrong, that your agent will help you figure it out and to not sweat it as much 🤣 I still stressed a little :)
Thanks so much for sharing your experience “in the trenches”! That’s a great point to look at the specific language agents are using in their ms wishlists (not to mention taking that extra step to research beyond what’s listed as their genres on Query Tracker!).
So helpful! And congratulations!
A terrific analysis! Thank you for dissecting the deals and BISAC codes.
Thank you, Jane…that’s especially meaningful coming from you!
I also think it's worth thinking about how books are categorized by retailers. Amazon has a separate Women's Fiction category with the following sub-categories: Black & African American; contemporary; divorce; domestic life; friendship; mothers & children; single women; sisters. They do not have Book Club Fiction or Upmarket Fiction, although they do have Literary Fiction. Barnes and Noble does NOT have a women's fiction section, so those books are probably shelved under romance or general fiction.
Good points...and it makes it all the more confusing for writers, I think! Also while we talk about commercial fiction in the industry, I've yet to hear a reader say that. I find the Amazon categories mostly though not always align with the BISAC codes, which can add further confusion. I also find it fascinating to see the new BISAC codes that get added every year (these are the ones marked with an asterisk) as that usually provides additional insights into the ever-changing language we're using in the industry. For instance, cozy fantasy is a new BISAC code...I'm not a fantasy reader but my understanding is that term mostly gained traction in 2022 with the book, Legends & Lattes. I also find it amusing that there's now a BISAC code for FICTION / Books, Bookstores & Libraries because boy, do we like our novels about books! But whereas "cozy fantasy" is positioning you would use in a query, I've wouldn't recommend using the latter as a subgenre. It's definitely tricky to make sense of it all, but it does make for a great discussion for us book nerds! ;)
I pitched my book as a woman’s fiction y cowboy romance and found my agent fairly quickly— she’s currently trying to sell it. We are calling it a “contemporary cowboy romance “. Not women’s fiction.
Thank you for sharing this! It's especially interesting to see how specific the language is that she's using to position it.
So much good info! I was a bit clueless about the codes when I signed my contract, but found that my publisher used women's fiction as the primary code even though I didn't pitch it that way
Ooh, that brings up another good point...your book is being publishing by a small press, right? Did you work with an agent or pitch directly to the publisher? I know you know this, but for those following along...small presses and university presses don't always operate in the same way as the big publishers.
Good point! I pitched them directly.
Thanks for more analysis on this issue. I posted about this yesterday on the WFWA FB page and the article didn't surprise me. I agree with you that women's fiction is too vague and needs to be drilled down more. Right now it seems like family-oriented women's fiction or re-invention is suffering the most. Unless the MC is millennial and there's dark humor.
So good to see more of your insight on this topic! I also just saw that FB post and the interesting discussion it's generating. Personally (and perhaps not surprisingly) I'm partial to a good reinvention story with a Gen X MC. I'm hopeful now that we've finally destigmatized peri/menopause, and middle age has been rebranded as midlife, that we'll be seeing more of this.
I hope so too!
Thank you! What a useful discussion!
Thank you...I'm glad you think so! I'm definitely curious to hear about other writers' experiences so we can keep this discussion going. I saw you're on the thread Karin started on WFWA's FB page, too, and it's very interesting to read the comments.
Heather! This was amazing. I learned so much about aspects of publishing I had zero idea about. You’re smart as hell, which I already know, but reading this made me say it again. Thanks!
Wow, what a compliment to start off my day! That means so much from someone whose writing I admire for being so powerful AND who I know always gives it straight. Thank YOU!
I pitched my novel as an upmarket love story, but now that I’ve decided to self-publish there’s no similar category. I have no other option but to market it as either women’s fiction or literary. Even though it’s neither. It’s very confusing.
I haven’t worked with authors who are self-publishing so don’t have much experience to share there but one of my fellow book coaches @annefhag recently shared that she was having this conversation with indie authors so tagging her so she can join if she has other thoughts. Where are you self-publishing through? It’s been a while but I do recall IngramSpark either used BISAC codes or has categories that are pretty similar to BISAC, and my understanding was that Amazon categories are actually more specific. If you can, I’d suggest following trad publishers’ lead by using additional categories to be more specific but still limiting them. (The best practice for BISAC codes is no more than three.)
Thanks so much Heather! I’ve checked amazon for similar books and used those categories. I hope it works, because I’d hate for people to get the wrong expectations and then get upset when my novel doesn’t deliver :)
Hi Malika. I’m the book coach Heather is referring too. I’m also an indie author 😃. I would be happy to take a look at categories with you. You can write me here: am@fiskerhag.com as I will need some details about your novel that you’re probably not comfortable sharing here 🤔😏
I also thought I could tag here but seems that didn't work...I'm still getting up to speed on Substack! I'll reach out and see if she can add any thoughts too though.
Thanks for this thoughtful analysis and conversation starter, Heather. I am a member of WFWA and have always found their definition of the genre to be confusing. It does not include the word 'woman' or 'women' nor imply the mission of the genre is to be either written or read by women. Which is all fair and fine, but begs the question: then why is it called Women's Fiction??
When I queried my first novel I did so under women's fiction or upmarket. Agree that often there are a handful of labels that could apply to any given book (for the one I'm writing now, I could see querying it under WF, Book Club, Upmarket, or Contemporary...to name a few). The lack of consistency in how these terms are being used and embraced (or rejected) throughout different facets of the industry is fascinating.
Thank you! And I agree that it is fascinating. But also frustrating, I think, especially for writers who may already have imposter syndrome then end up confused and feeling dumb because they can't figure out the differences, when clearly that's not their fault. I remember reading somewhere that one agent was quoted as saying about upmarket fiction something to the effect of, "I can't quite define it but I know it when I see it." It's no wonder there's so much confusion. But I think the good news for pitching writers is you just need to be close enough on genre that you're pitching the right agent and have solid comps.
This couldn't be more useful as I am in the process of querying a project but also starting a new one. Thank you for breaking this down for us. I also really appreciate the takeaway of giving a sense of tone and themes/topics in the genres we use when we query. Fabulous!!!!!
Thanks so much, Alexandra! Very glad it was helpful to you.
100% and then some!
I think part of the problem is that while there is certainly "women's fiction" that appeals primarily to women--just as there is fiction that appeals primarily to men (but isn't called "men's fiction"), the definition given by WFWA (to which I belong) is very broad. I understand WFWA's desire not to ghettoize or be narrowly by-and-for women, but WFWA's description really does better fit book club or upmarket fiction, and even though more women than men apparently read fiction, if a novel is likely to have more than a sprinkling of male readers, then calling it women's fiction will not attract most of that potential male audience.
For instance--Yellowface or The Invisible Circus or The Blind Assassin could all be called women's fiction because they're about women's lives and relationships (not necessarily romantic), but--leaving aside the also-problematic category of literary fiction--it would be rather strange to market those books as women's fiction as they have a more general appeal. They could all be safely called book club fiction since they offer plenty to discuss; on the other hand, not all women's fiction offers much to discuss as some is simply light reading intended to entertain (and nothing wrong with that).
Also, I don't think almost any physical bookstore or library has a women's fiction section or a book club fiction section or a literary fiction section--they have mystery, romance, sci fi/fantasy, maybe western, and everything else is shelved as just fiction. They might possible have a few shelves for classics that keep selling year after year, though--I've seen that now and then, particularly at airport bookstores.
Thanks so much for these thoughts, really thorough and helpful as I consider querying later this year.
So glad you found it helpful!
This is so helpful for me as a coach in training - thank you!
I'm so glad you found it helpful! Are you in Author Accelerator?
Yes I am! Fiction track.
The struggle with this is real! I just switched to a new author website and wrestled over my “tag-line” once again, specifically asking myself, “What kind of author am I, and how do I let visitors to my page know?” And even more specifically, “Should I still use the words ‘Women’s Fiction’ as one of my two primary categories?”
(I also read the Carly Waters’s article once again in seeking clarity.)
The thing is, my writing exactly squares up with the definition of women’s fiction. Even my mystery novels are women’s fiction. But why “women’s” fiction has always been the sticking point, right? Why gender it? And is gendering it so terrible? (I have also called my mysteries “chick lit” and actually champion the term. It, too, signals a certain kind of book, namely light women’s fiction. And taking back “chick” feels right to me.)
I thought about who my website is for…readers. I need them to know what sort of books they might find there and what would be familiar and relatable to them. I played around with more descriptive terms: Heart-Warming Fiction & Mystery (too warm & fuzzy for my style). Relatable Fiction & Mystery (yuck). Aspirational Fiction & Mystery (confusing). General Fiction & Mystery (snore). Fiction & Mystery (aren’t mysteries fiction? So why both?)
Waters suggested one that comes closest to describing the type of story I write: Adult Coming of Age Fiction. Maybe this would be perfect for an agent pitch but to draw readers? I’m not sure. It’s not exactly snappy.
The thing is, women’s fiction is more about the focus or themes of a novel, the types of conflict the characters confront, not a type of plot or a writing style, or time period. A book could be upmarket women’s fiction historical mystery. Or contemporary women’s fiction thriller.
Maybe it’s just too late. The term was coined and has stuck. It’s like chick lit. Chick lit started being called rom-com (which it isn’t and doesn’t help readers who go looking for a romance and find a not so happy ever after)) because of political correctness. Should it have been named something else to start? Probably. Same with Women’s Fic. But that ship has sailed.
What the reader needs to know may be different from what an agent or publisher needs to know. Maybe someday we’ll find another classification word.
I stuck with Women’s Fiction & Mystery. For now. Sorry for this long reply.
I LOVE a long, thoughtful reply! :) I tend to think if your author website is for readers, you still include the terms they’re familiar with (as you say, women’s fic and mystery) because they have no idea this discussion is even happening. But this is also where you can use other terminology as well to provide more info…you have a lot more flexibility in your website. For example, coming of age is certainly something readers are familiar with, but I’ve also recently heard “coming of middle age,” and I have to admit, I kinda love the cheekiness of it. (That could just be because of my own age!) Your author website is a great place to show your personality so you can be a little more playful if that’s reflective of your books. Another example…I work with the very funny humor writer Wendi Aarons who often says she writes for middle grade and middle age…both playful and accurate. However, I wouldn’t worry too much about your website either because that’s very unlikely to be the way readers are finding you. If they’re already on your website, they’re probably there because they’ve read your work and want to know more.
All good points, Heather! Thanks for replying. As you can tell, this topic fascinates me. Coming of middle age…yes. Been through that myself. With all the hormone changes and angst about body and aging and “who am I?” questioning, it was reminiscent of adolescence. Being human is a wild ride. Cheers!
Thank you so much for this informative article!
You're welcome! Thank you for reading...so glad you found it helpful.